There was a Lost Vikings sequel on the Saturn, but I know that isn't the point. Games that require players to work together in groups are usually great fun, a DC example being Sonic Shuffle which is probably best in the 2 vs 2 mini-games.

I'll have more to say soon.

This is kinda unrelated, but...

I'd love to see a new version of "Lost Vikings", from the SNES and MD heyday. It would have to be 2D still though, so as not to ruin it. Anyway, with new technology we could see hundreds of levels in the same style, but get this: simultaneous multi player! The first version had it, but it didn't work very well because the second player had to share a screen. However, now we could see new puzzles requiring all 3 vikings at the same time, like using the combined weights of 2/3 vikings (each with different weights) for pressing a button, etc.

Isnt this ideas

Hey I know perfectly fine well accents mess stuff up but these are just ideas.
Obviously in an ideal world it would work fine.
Okay lets take out the voice regognition thing and just leave it as text. Dont you think an online RPG where you need to get help from other people is more fun than just NPC'S. Plus you can help others and its not like everyone is gonna get stuck at the same bit and if that did happen then Im sure a NPC could help out

FPS team commands ? Why waste your breath. No one listens :P

It could be a good idea for games like Operation Flashpoint where you could tell your squad what to do.

Team Fortress 2 is going to use it and the new CS patch due out in about a month will include VR but this will probably cause more problems.

I mean lets say some stupid 12 year old gets his hand on a mic ? Is he gonna say "Watch out sniper on rooftop " or "HAHAH S*** F*** ARSE "

But for Clans it could be useful.

You describe about 5 different online RPGs that are available now. Personally, these kind of games are life killers as well as being monotonous affairs. But that's just my opinion.

Using real-time voices at all disolves the fantasy of online play. A well made game immerses us in it's world, not us forcing reality back in. Why use a translator to turn what you've said into a different language when your voice isn't even the end product...you may as well just type it and let the computer generate it. Same results, but a more logical approach. And, yes, it's already been done.

The accent problem will never be solved, at least not for a good few years yet. I don't think voice recognition is ever really going to live up to the hype distilled in it since the early 90s. Sure, it'd be great to have StarTrek-style computers to relay commands to, like 'Lights on', 'Send subspace message...', 'Update my blog' and so on, but it's never ever going to be superior to any kind of manual input interface. As for games, it's usefulness is limited but it may have a future in FPS for simple team commands, but beyond that i'm not so sure.

I don't think we're really missing out with 'Seaman'...I was more bothered about 'Hey you, Pikachu!'...

No can do...

Sorry GM, but a translator would never work. The main reason? Accents.

Whether it be irate rednecks in middle America or dumb scousers in NW England, their voices would never be recognised all by the same program. That's why Seaman (ha ha) was never released in the UK.

Personally, if there is a new PSO (i.e. PSO2 not PSO ver2), I would like to see multi-levelled areas such as Zelda 64 (but executed differently), and more intelligent combat systems, which are more based on skill then experiance (but where experiance still plays an important role).

Sweet

I was just think earlier of what I belive would be a really cool game

It would be a massive online RPG like PSO but instead of typing to say things you would chat into a microphone and some built in translator would translate it.
Also there would be few NPC's. These people would give you the basic outline to a quest but then its up to you to work out how to do it. If you get really stuck then you would have to ask other players. You could work in groups or on your own.
And there would be secret hidden quests that you can find or ask other players how to find.

So it would be like your average online RPG only you dont get much help from NPC's. I think it would work well for a while but what if the game became unpopular and people stopped playing ? Then there would be fewer people online to get help from. Still whilst people are intrested it would be good.

I think it would work well on X-Box becuase then new levels and stuff could be downloaded to the hard drive.

Interesting Reads Part I

From planetDC:

"While browsing at DC Emulation I noticed a very cool post that GameDev.net have whipped up a guide to Dreamcast programming. The guide lets you know about all tools (which are FREE) that you will need for programming your own games for the Dreamcast. So if you are into programming (or just curious) hit this link to get your start developing your own Dreamcast games."

Good lifespan

Multiplayer does help. Look at the most popular multiplayer game online. Counter-Strike. For those of you not in the know , get in the know and come back.
Counter-Strike is a Modification for Half-Life. Now lets face facts. Half-Life is a excellent game with a good story and graphics to match but when did you last play the single player mode ?

Its a tottaly liner story with no real hidden secrets. But the multiplayer. Woohoo.

"There's nothing more frustrating than an enjoyable game that can be completed in days."
I completed SA2 in 3 days but Im still going back to it. If it didnt have the Emblem quest or the Chaos I might only dip into it now and then.

Maybe even if it didnt have the Emblem quest.
Something so small can make a lot of difference.

Freedom

This is tricky. Give people too much freedom and they get lost , dont give them enough and they dont come back.

Shenmue is a good example. Although not really that free at least you cant get stuck because Ryo will always ask questions and try and get hints from people.
But in Deus Ex which some claim has more freedom doesnt have this aid.

Claim has more freedom ? Well the plot doesnt change too much really (N.B I havent actually completed it myself but Ive talked to people who have done things differently from me and only had slight changes. For all I know these slight changes could become something MASSIVE at the end of the game. )

The only real freedom is your approch. You know stealhy or all guns blazing.

To me freedom and approch are tottaly different.

Thanks Popdog

For the opening.

So what gives a game a good lifespan?

Detail. Depth. And tons of secrets. On 16-bit machines, most games offered little more on completion than a badly-written text message. If you were lucky, you might get a picture and a special tune, too. One, publisher, however, provided a glowing example of how games should be, with a number of their titles offering just that little bit more for the player to perform after completion. And that company was Nintendo.
Finish Zelda and you could go back and collect every single heart piece. Get to the end of Super Metroid and its likely you'd have missed at least a few a few secrets and almost certainly a number of screens. And so on. Nowadays, however, are taking this 'secrets and extras' to an entirely new level. Concealed novelties. Hidden cheat menus and sometimes the little idiosyncrasies possibly offer more extras.
Its no longer 'optional' to have secrets - its a damn prerequisite. But that doesn't mean taht such features should be added at the expense of the game proper. There's nothing more frustrating than an enjoyable game that can be completed in days.

So 'lifespan' is all about difficulty and rewards?

Hardly. The easiest and best way to add lifespan to any game is to.........ADD A MULTI PLAYER MODE! It's that simple. Multiplayer gaming is so important that it should be taken as read that any competetive theme should have at least a two player mode.

What else improves lifespan?

Freedom helps. While certain games will always operate within rigid frameworks - such as your average racing game - any game that allows players to 'ad lib', as it were, is doing something very right. Exploration, customisation these little things make it all very fun.

What next? Mastery?, graphics? c'mon tell me.

Replay value

This can be incredibly important for some games (Arcade shooters for example ) and not so important for others (FF series )

The difference not being how much fun they are or anything but how long they last.

Get this and that or go that way ?

Skies of Arcadia has something like 60 Discoveries to make and a whole crew to get on your side to fully complete it but RE3 has the path splits.

Which is better ? Im not sure but I think something like RE3 only bigger would be neat. . In one part of RE3 choosing one option over the other ended up being different becuase one way you got 9MM clip or something.

What I wanna see is not just a little detour before you go back onto the normal path but even bigger changes in the long run.

Probably what Shadow of Memories is like.

The Suspense is Killing Me
Yes, a game must have suspense otherwise the effect is never the same. Look at the Resident Evil series like Dark says. They were maybe the first games to really immerse a player in the feeling that something horrible was lurking around the corner and then something like Silent Hill came along where the sound effects were used to optimum levels to up the suspense.

Left or Right? In or Out? To be or not to be?
Having multiple paths through a game is also a good idea because then it gives the gamer incentive to go through it again and see "everything" they missed first time round. You could do it in a Resi Evil 3 sort of way where one key decision at a point in the game influences the ending or you could have it like Shadow of Memories on PS2 where a combination of actions/decisions influences the path you take through the game and ending.

Ah yes BUT....

Remember the immersion post, you don't want to suddenly die for no reason you want to feel in control all the time. I quite like the suspence used in the Res Evil games. You need the suspence in both story and gameplay.

I can't bear the suspence....

Hmmmm....the ultimate games needs to be suspenceful. I love suspence! Of course by suspence I don't mean throw in extra violence or outdoing oneself in ultra-gross. But plain and simple suspence.
Like....you don't know what's coming around that corner but you think you hear something.

....or you're happy...you're humming away...and then...

SUDDENLY ! BAM! You head's been chopped off.

Music can greatly aid a game by adding to suspence.

Ideally suspence should be written right into the story. The story itself should be suspenceful....what's going to happen next? Should I trust this character? I also think multiple paths help a game to be suspenceful. I like it when you are force to make a decision in a middle of the game but you have a choice. It's suspencful because after you make your decision you play that path wondering if it was the right thing to do. That feeling keeps you on your toes.

In a way...one could argue that to a lesser or greater degree all games have suspence. But I'd like to see suspence taken to a whole new level. That brings us back to "instinctive gaming". Where the game is in real time and there are little clues as to the path before you. (See archives for more info on "instinctive gaming" and if you haven't done so already check archives for Cam's ultimate game idea, "Bullet Train".)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who shies away from programming. But if , in the future, we ever want to make a game, we need to get some programmer buddies. I suppose I'm in no hurry though.

I too would love to be a game reviewer. I'm excellent at being critical while at the same time remaining tactful and polite. I can easily see all sides of an issue. Actually I can be a critic in general.

The Indecipherable Secret Code
I have no real knowledge of programming therefore much as I would love to be a games designer it is very unlikely to happen. Instead I'd prefer to be maybe a games tester (albeit an extremely well-paid one) or maybe better a computer games reviewer. Whether it be for a respected magazine, an Internet site or [heaven forbid] a teletext-based magazine (UK only joke) I would be quite happy to do that. However, I'd probably end up spending more time playing the games than I would reviewing them.

Maximise This
I also saw the new PC game Max Payne in action on Cybernet today and it is looking s-w-e-e-t. The whole "bullet-time" thing has been done to death but it still looks pretty cool and to make a whole game based on the idea is maybe taking a risk. But the graphics are excellent and I'm sure it'll sell loads. I just hope it makes an appearance on the PS2.

So

I'm not 'great' at programming either and programming is not really the part of games design I'm interested in, I would like to either write up the ideas OR be a level designer (my 1st choice). Just because your not good at one aspect doesn't mean you still can't work in the industry.

Yeah forget programming, we can live with ideas

Although I might want to produce a musical score (*please no more music stuff*), no reason we have to make the game, collecting ideas is good enough. For now anyway...

Well....I don't think I would ever be able to make a game....because I don't think I will be good at programming...(although I'll try). I'm more of an ideas person. That's why I started this blog is dump my ideas somewhere so I won't go insane and I can carry on with life. I think I'm better off as some sort of consultant or maybe the music programmer (I may be good at that as I am pretty good in music and mixing). Maybe a team could be put together. But I'll never be able to program anything because I'm a daydreamer. Also, I have a short attention span...already my story is fading from memory...(it was created in 1997). I'm also really starting to think that certain aspects of my story should be torn out and transferred to other people's stories and ideas, ie. Cam's Bullet Train. Well....we'll see.

Oh btw....welcome Solid! Glad to see your posts!

How is that an agurment ?

Your agreeing with what Syphid is saying.

The real geeks are programmers who do all the work but Gates and Carmack are the ones getting all the money

I apologise courdaly for the misquote...it was in fact Ray.

I know this place isn't really intended for SWW-style heated arguments, but I'm affraid I have to disagree with Syphid on a few points.

"Firstly programmers are considered the real 'geeks' of the gaming industry they sit around all day typing in a language than no bugger has a clue about, BUT lets face it Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Jon Carmack (Quake Series) are definetly having the last laugh (chi-ching)."

Gates hasn't written a line of released code himself for some 15 years, and as far as I know has never played a part in the making of any game. As for Carmack, he's a production director and has been for some time. His days as a coder were many, many years ago.
The little guys who actually do the core work are very rarely as idolised or given as much public attention. Miyamoto, Carmack, Romero, Naka, Kojima, Molyneux...these guys are the creative geniuses and will rarely get anywhere near the messy work.

Speaking of Peter Molyneux, I recently read an interview made by him about Black & White. I suppose it's essential reading for all aspiring game creators - the tale of 3 painstaking years working on what would turn out to be a revolutionary piece of software. Approx. 2 million lines of code y'know...



BTW, If anyone's that interested I could probably get hold of a copy of 3D Studio Max...the definitive graphics application for games development. It'd only take forever to learn how to use...

Dark's view on programming

Pre-School? Ok imagine that the red triangle.........no wait..........Mr Basic Code.........no that wont work either.

When I said "What would you like to see next" I meant stuff like graphics, lifespan, mastery etc. But after doing a little digging Ive found out some stuff for you.

Firstly programmers are considered the real 'geeks' of the gaming industry they sit around all day typing in a language than no bugger has a clue about, BUT lets face it Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Jon Carmack (Quake Series) are definetly having the last laugh (chi-ching).
The programmers make the actual engine that the game will use, they take the ideas from the artists and designers and make them work. Despite how difficult this is there are plenty of people having a go at becomming a programmer and fortunetly software companies are always on the lookout for good skilled programmers "If you have what it takes your skills are like virtual gold dust".

The more traditional way of showing your prowess is to make a short demo showing what you can do, if its good enough you may just get hired.

Since games have grown from a small team of ten or twenty to a full blown industry many companies like you to have a degree tucked away in your CV.
The prospects are good though the sky is the limit so to speak, get a reputation and you could end up with your own company (Syphid Games etc).

Salery? Trainees £12,000 a year while a top programmer could get £50,000 a year and royalties ontop of that.

Needed? Enthusiasm, dedication, and a good demo of your skills or a degree in computing or other math related subject.

Be Careful

Yeah when making the engine you have to make sure that it will run smoothly on the machine you are making it for, example Perfect Dark is a great game but the multiplayer is hindered by the fact that if you have too many bots and people it will slow down to a crawl. P.C's can always require better specs for the games but being conservative is also a consideration often overlooked.

So what do you want to see next? (Remember I'm not a book)

Make my ears bleed

I tottaly agree with you there about the FF7 soundtrack. Superb stuff. I love the Costa Del Sol music.
Do Do Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do *drifts off into another world *

Lol Solid I didnt say that about NIN.

I cant remember who it was

Programming

Since I got started on RPG Maker and to a lesser extent Visual Basic Ive wanted to make a game. I dont wanna just put in basic events like RPG Maker. I wanna add the code. I used to make simple games on my Spectrum using Basic

I tried Dark Basic but couldnt get anywhere. It was just a blank screen. I didnt have a clue.
So I uninstalled it without even trying anything :)

Earthworm Jim

Sometimes comedy doesn't have to be in your face or completely obvious, the most effective brands in games are usually a parody of something well known or just a bizarre spin on reality. The Monkey Island series was and always will be funny, but so was Grim Fandango, Sam & Max and Day of the Tentacle, albeit in a less clear cut but just as effective way. For example, Bishi Bashi Special has most people in tears just because it's so unusually wacky.

Make my ears bleed

As for music, in my opinion Squaresoft are kings. Most people could easily name one of their RPGs as their favourite game music. Final Fantasy VII has just about the most valued soundtrack there is. Thing is, it's all simple orchestral pieces using the Playstation/PCs midi-capabilities but it still sounds amazing. If you break them all down it's all simple loops and sequences but turn the music off and the game feels empty. The best game music effects you in an emotional way, just as with the images you see on the screen. However, this may not be achievable with every type of game.

I agree with Popdog on NIN's soundtrack to the original Quake - it really did add to the atmosphere and feeling of suspense. I can remember myself jumping with fright as

The last 3 Fifa games have also had excellent fitting music, some by unknown artists. They may not have been directly football related but the game feels much better because of them. Ok, so it's not in-game music as such, but a good example of how real songs can be intergrated successfully.

Radiohead on a game soundtrack...that'd probably work better than you think...

Programming

The bit that turns all the great ideas into something substancial. My advice, start off small and work upwards. We have to be realistic, anything too ambitious would be like jumping into the deep end of a shark infested, lava-filled pool.

I've seen good games made on just about every programming language, although there's no telling how long it would take even for an experienced coder. As for the more well known professional gaming languages, the learning curve, especially for those who haven't learnt anything but high level languages, is almost Everest-like. From what I've seen of the infamous DarkBasic, people manage to make reasonably nice looking games with ease but seem to forget the very fundamentals that make a game playable. Besides, fancy graphics are irrelevant if the game itself is strong enough to survive.

Check out this site, they have games and help from DarkBasic users.

POint on Comedy is noted. The Monkey Island series were great!....for laughs anyway. Did anyone here ever play SPace Quest 4?

I still think some carefully selected popular tunes could make a game more enjoyable. But still I would want tons of original orchestrated music as well. I wouldn't want all popular tunes in it....maybe just a few...so that it's a treat.

Dark: Remember we can try to tackle programming next....

Can't type any more...must ....go...to...bed!

Comedy ha ha! No.

Comedy is a difficult target when making games, because so often has it failed miserably. Only few games have worked (Lucas Arts point n' clicks, Bangai-O), and if incorporated badly, it can be a real turn-off for the gamer.

If a band can do a good soundtrack, they usually have to pull out all the stops to create something phenomonal to fit in with the game (unless it's a mindless racer, like WipEout). NIN's soundtrack to Quake is a good example.

Sound

Yeah sound and music are important. Im not a big fan of rap or techno but these types of music work well in SA2 becuase of the characters and the levels that go with them.
I think one of the hardest areas is lyrics. Some games have great music but are spoiled by poor lyrics and vice versa. Sorry but I cant think of any examples but I know they are out there.

Comedy

Comedy is a difficult area to get right in a game as different people find different things amusing.
Lots of silly fart jokes might appel to immature kids but its not gonna appel to a more mature audience , espically females.

I think one of the best examples of Comedy done right is any of the Monkey Island series (except maybe the newest one , according to the reviews anyway ).

OK next on the list...

Let's tackle...."programming". Remember...think of me as a pre-schooler.

Comedy

That's one thing my story (if i still choose to do it for a game) is lacking. There'll bit of Buddy"teasing" between and his two best friends...but I don't have any thing substancial. Yet another area I need big time help in.

Does Sound Make A Good Game?

No. But it can contribute to an astonishing degree. Music and sound effects can turn an otherwise average or uninspiring game into something special, if used properly. Of course, the opposite also applies. The importance of a strong backing score and suitable FX cannot be underestimated.

So What Can Sound Add To A Game?

Atmosphere. Pure and simple. Would a football game be the same without the crowd? or a FPS without the sound of guns?.

Some of the best music is context sensitive. This is music that has a basic soundtrack but changes as your location is changed.
A good example of this is Skies Of Arcadia's music that plays as you move the ship around the map, this sort of effect is very hard to achive and the first "good" context sensitive music I heard was Mario 64, since this was cartrige based it made it easier to produce (due to its CD quality sound chip) but the Dreamcast manages it just as well.

Isn't it better to have a Chemical Brothers/Radiohead Style Soundtrack For A Game?

Um, no. It isn't. Most games simply play a basic soundtrack in the background and, more often than not, it adds little to the gaming experience. But make the music alter to suit the game, or play certain tracks at set points to 'confirm' the mood of any one scene, and you're achieving something special. Movies do it, so why can't games? For an unsubtle but effective example, cast your mind back to Starsky and Hutch. When the camera switched to a couple of bad guys sitting in a car, or using a phone, there was a distinct 'somethings fishy!' tune. Later, in the all too inevitable car chase, a fast paced piece of guitar music would be used to accentuate the speed of the pursuit. Last, tramps or general losers always got the 'Waaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaa' noise.
Now, while the tunes lacked finesse, they served their purpose well. As soon as the relevent music began we, the viewers, were instantly aware of that scene's importance. You knew immediately that you were either staring at a bad guy, a car chase or a tramp so drunk he would happily drink his own believing it was Tizer. Such techniques can easily be included in videogames and to great effect.

What about Sound Effects?

Just think of Goldeneye. From the muffled report of a silenced Walther PPK, to the superb 'clink' of an ammo cartrige droppen by a guard.
Sound effects, on a basic level, act as a confirmation of on-screen action. You fire, and hear the appropriate noise.
A crap game that has odd sound effects that you don't expect makes the game feel weird.
The best games usually offer more than this, however, with incidental (and oh so atmospheric) spot FX that go a long way towards creating a believeable and engrossing game.

What Do You Want To Know Next?

Dark Syphid

Music

Yes....Music is very important! I think that a game with a serious story should have an original orchestrated musical score (perferably dark and dramatic, but some vocal could be ok).

When it comes to action stages themselves, the music has to be a bit more simplier and not too distracting. Definately I prefer moody and mysterious over other styles....although a funky techno tune could be appropriate for certain types of fighting scenes. But techno beats and other "fast" tunes (like Punk and Ska) aren't really appropriate for slower pace, adventure/problem-solving parts of the game. So music has to be carefully selected and fit the circumstances. Yet at the same time, there's has to be a bit of blending (from one to the next) so that the game moves smoothly, as opposed to coming off rigid or choppy.

Another thing that I think an ultimate game should have is "Guest Musical Artists". Feature popular music (but only if it relates to the "mood" of the game). Or the artist could make an original song up just for the game. It'll be exclusive to the game. This kind a thing, if properlly advertised, could help sell the game. ( I realise it cost a lot of money to sign on guest artists).

Darkness Returns II

Sound eh? well tommorow I'll post somethin special about sound for all you great people in the style of the Immersion one. So dont be late for class children ;)

So what'cha what'cha what'cha want?

Music is very important to a game, which is why it needs careful consideration. If it is an RPG, the score should be something orchestral, with different moods for different events. Or what about something moody and mysterious? Like in Super Metroid.

A short post again, only because I haven't much time...

PopDog

After previous discussions with PopDog, all misunderstanding have been resolved. As a result, I have decided to re-invite PopDog to this group blog. Welcome back!

There must be a sacrifice....stuck between the rock and a hard place.

Yet, the more I post my ideas, the more I'm realizing that my "concept" is better off as a novel or a script. (Which is what I originally started it to be back in 1997.)

It's really important that Rian (the leader of the half lizard-half human people, and the most noble creature) in the story comes to a such an end. It is the finale touch of ultimate drama for Angelia to have to do something that will ultimately kill him. Yet, when I read your comments, they make me realize that it might be hard on a gamer to choose that character to play, play him for X-amount of hours, then come to the horrifying conclusion that one has to watch that character come to a finalizing death after all that hard work. Perhaps it isn't a good idea, but on the other end that is the ending I want. You see, my story concept relies heavily on character development and their interactions with each other. My story trifiles on the idea of "sacrifice" and coming face to face to circumstances where you have to kill loved ones for the greater good and the ethical issues of all that implies. The more I think about it, the more I think I should continue my idea as a novel or script, not a game.

I still would like to come up with a game though. Some of my ideas could be borrowed or "transferred". Or...my imagination is fairly active and maybe I could come up with new ideas to compliment some-one else's "ultimate game".

PopDog, did you read Cam's "Bullet Train" idea? If not, check the archives...it's worth it.

Instictive Gaming....yes...a fine idea, isn't it. It's nothing new...but I'd like to polish the concept and take it to a whole new level. I don't mean that an entire game should be made with instinctive gaming....but perhaps just the end. That allows for several, various endings. Instinctive gaming doesn't have to do with clues or putting two and two together, or solving a puzzle, or beating a "boss" systematically....rather...it means that the whole beginning and middle parts train you (the player) to become the character chosen. Then the end sequence is most successful when you are in most in tune with your character. Fulfiilling the character role in the story. "Instinctive gaming" works best in a situation where you have no idea what's going to happen next. I mean...no clues whatsoever....you have to be "sharp" to what's going on in your surroundings and respond accordingly, but quickly. The rest of the game you had played previously prepares you for "instinctive gaming" by letting you practice "fighting" or "problem-solving" while immersing you in an involved story that aids you in "becoming the character". But then when the day of reckoning comes...you are on your own to do your best to end the story as what is fit for your character. Does any of this explanation help or is it making it worse?

I guess that's enough for today....

I have returned

Ive been away for about a week and a bit but even after getting kicked out I still came here most days to try and keep on track with things.
I didnt think Id get back in. Angel was really pissed (and I think she is still cooling down so I better not annoy her again ) but I still wanted to see what ideas the rest of you would come up with.

Im really intrested by this Instinctive Gaming thing.

Although Im a bit confused as to who ends up killing who and why ?

I dont understand how the SUPER DOPPER ULTIMATE ending is achived by killing one of the good guys.

Is this your attempt to recreate the infamous Areis death in ff7 ?
Maybe not exactly but what I think your aiming for is for the player to kill one of the characters , feel bad about it but also realise it had to be done.

A Dark Secret

Hmmm...probably similiar to the "Twists". I haven't thought about the dark secret yet. I can't think of any good ones....I'll need some ideas. I'm not feeling well today. I guess I'm just not able to think it through. The whole story itself is kind a 'dark' and none of the characters really know what's going on. And when they are given an explanation they don't whole heartedly accept it. There is going to be a this one thing with the wizard guy, Mark. Even though he'll "like" the heros, he won't be inclined to help them too much until the end. He thinks choosing between dark and light is unethical and that neither side is "right". He doesn't have a sense a truth. That's not much of a Dark Secret though.

TIME

Yes. The idea of time has entered my mind for my ultimate game. I think it might be much on the player....BUT...perhaps that aspect of gaming could be limited only to 1 or 2 of the playable characters. I was thinking of having one character from the future be brought into the past due to the deteriation of the universe (as the machine is slowing down and stopping) while another character comes from another planet from another alternate reality and time. (please don't think me conceited but I was thinking of casting myself as that character.) And their actions can affect the ending of the others who can't alter time.

Still, putting in the "time" factor may make the ultimate game much too complex and could over-shadow the "real" story. So I don't know...we'll have to see....

A good name for a "time machine" is a watch...

How about the added obstacle of time travel in a new game? Only to be used sparingly though, where you could travel back in time and alter history some way or another, e.g. help a side in a past war win to effect control of the current world after travelling back to the future (she's gonna blow Marty!).

It could see entire maps changing or being built from who was in charge over the years, or what diseases are rampant (if any!) or whether communism/capitalism rule, whether "Big Brother" has become a reality (book by George Orwell), etc etc...

The possibilities are completely limitless! It'd be like Deus Ex, but on a whole new scale.

No way out Situations

Yes...there will be lots of those. Again the Survival Horror aspect of escaping from the mutated tarantulas and what not. But I have this idea for a part involving the tarantula nest. The leader of the tarantulas is half human, have spider and is the younger brother of the "bad guy". At one point he'll capture Angelia and she'll be caught in the big spider webs. But it's not really a singular. The "web" is allover. Ever been in a real old wooden structure where the spider "webs" actually become part of the walls and is like 4 inches think, covering all the walls and ceiling? Well, I have seen this. Think in those terms.

The whole end sequence is a no way out situation in the sense that the characters' (gamer plays) friends will be die. The good guys will be quite out-numbered and trapped. In the same idea of Lord of the Rings, the majority have to war against the "bad guys" in order to allow the selected characters do the "real mission".

At the very, very end, in order to get the "ultimate" good ending requries the death of the most noblest character and it will be one of the one's you can play. He has to be killed by Angelia (whom the gamer could also choose to play) except as the gamer playing her, you will not know at the very end whether you can do it and if it really is the right thing to do until you've done it. I'll call this gaming aspect "instinctive gaming". There will be no clues as to how to play the very, very end. You must play instinctively. Actually, one could claim that the rest of the game itself is designed to teach you how to play and think out your character so as to choose your path at the very end. It'll be quite likely that the gamer will choose may other endings before trying the "ultimate" one.m So...anyway.... I'd call that a "no way out situation".

Bullet Train

Hey! This sounds good. The background kind a remains me of I Spy: Industrial Espinage (DC) but it's unique enough. Definately a great recipe for an action game. Now will it be third person shooter or a first person? But sounds more of an action/adventure though, that's good. Allows for variety and movie sequences. Will there be some survival horror aspects to it? That's always exciting. The 48 hours in real time is an excellent idea. Of course, the temptation to play the game in the actual 48 hours will be there, but as Dark said, the "best" games are those that will keep the player glued to their seats to the point that the "rest of the world ceases to exist". IT's called "Immersion". Your story has the potential of creating a game that will be successful in this area.

Unfortunately, none of my ideas for the ultimate game are transferable to yours due to its setting. But I may have a character for you. He's flexible in that he can be hero, grey or evil. Grey is always effective, but you can't have to many "grey" characters as it makes the story way too complex. He could be a Russian, but his name is Jade, which isn't Russian name. But I think I'll think up a new name for him. Actually I wil do that. I want "Jade" for another story. When I'm fully recovered from the emotional outburst at the SWW forum, I'll try to give you a description of him and his personality.

I'm sorry for not posting too much in the last few days, but I am having problems on the SWW Forum.

 And I    am    very  p i s s e d off at some members and how moderators are treated in general. 

I regret to announce that I have removed Graham McFayden a.k.a. PopDog from the team. I removed him due to how he treated me at the SWW Forum. If he does it there, what's going to stop him from doing it here on my own blog?

Yes Interaction is another excellent element for any ultimate game. The question is "how MUCH interaction is needed?"

Interaction is the key!

RPGs have never allowed much interaction, just the ability to examine objects. How about a level similar to the new breed of FPShooters, such as Operation Flashpoint, Duke Nukem 4Ever or Max Payne? Finding a vehicle, for example, and driving the thing to cover huge distances, when a dragon cannot be found for miles, or going one step furthur and finding a broken car and FIXING it to work again? Or, furthur still and MAKING a car (I'm just getting ahead of myself now).

OK, so the technical stuff may be removed (due to nobody actually having much of an idea how to make a car), but how about collecting the resources and building to the best of your skill level or whatever? If at a low level, a wooden cart, but at the highest level (with more resources) an MPV? Very crazy idea that could work one day...

You know someone made a intresting comment. I think it was Raymond (sorry dont know your nick )

Something about the story will be boring to us becuase we came up with it.
We did ?
I think the only one who has had anything to do with the story is Angel.
Shes got all the characters and all thier romantic subplots sorted already :P

We are just making some little filler additions :)


Planet Funkotron ? Yes well

Fully interactive scenery.
Thats something that a lot of people were on about in MGS2. You could do this and that and the next thing.
Interactice scenery is a nice diversion when you get bored or stuck , plus it can be fun.
Any jump on the Pool table in Duke Nukem and pot all the balls ?
Or hows about walking into the dog poo and leaving messy footprints behind :)

Shock!

I'm sorry I mentioned the 'b' word, as that should only be considered for inter-species relationships involving 'dumb' animals (i.e. one species not as smart as the other). If inter-species relationships were so illegal or whatever, in Moomin, Nimble (Little My's mother) is married to a Moomintroll (the policeman guy).

Also, in this Ultimate Game, I'd like to see fully interactive scenary on the scale of Duke Nukem, yet with the size and beauty of a Final Fantasy game. Plus, other planets to visit that each differ to each other immensly. And planet Funkotron.

Immersion

O.K. Everybody! Pay attention to the previous post on "Immersion" by Dark. It is beneficial reading. I agree entirely.

Beastility

I never really thought about people getting upset over inter-species relationships. They are half humanoid. They look a little more human than animals and they're are much more nobler than us.

There's were some "problems" at the SWW forum today and it's too late (2 am) for me to post any more info on story and characters. Maybe next time. Good night!

What makes the ultimate game?

Ok there are basic elements like attractive visuals and a two player modes. It would be impossible to single out one of these and say "yes thats it, thats what makes a good game". BUT there is one thing that is common in all great games. Immersion.

Unlike TV, games are interactive entertainment, the progress of one gaming session is directly influenced by the player's input. A "good" game is unique in that it involves a player to a high degree. When playing Sonic Adventure 2, Code Veronica or Skies Of Arcadia or any other top class game you are totally preoccupied with on-screen action. It's as if the rest of the world ceases to exist.

If you play a game where you suddenly die for no apparent reason you feel anything but "involved". You feel cheated and if you actually bought the game probably a little sick. You are very aware that your TV is over there and that you are holding your joypad and (most probably) the next door neighbours kids are eating your flowers again.

When concerned parents and moral guardians express their distrust of videogames, a common complaint is that they seem to be hypnotised while playing. Indeed, if you've ever watched someone while they're truly engrossed in a game, you'll notice their eyes appear glazed, as if in some kind of trance. But only the best games can do this.

If you liked this informative post I'll post some more when I return

Illegal ?

Does it really matter ? Its just a game

Illegal!

On the worries of beastility (I'm sorry but it had to be printed), maybe an inter-species relationship will not be allowed in a commercially available game. This problem plagued the storyline of "Planet of the Apes" (new version).

Also, the problem with us all making the story is that, if it turned out to be the best thing ever, we'd know the ending. Shame really...

Sounds like an intresting bunch of people Angelina :P

Romance

yep. There'll be romance. ONe of the main characters, Nathan, will be in denial for the whole story, but he will love Angelia (ex-Queen of her species. Half butterfly, half humanoid). Inter-species relationships is not the norm on their world. The bad guy (after the shards of crystal) will be infactuated with Angelia. She hates him. Nathan's good friends will have love interests, but it won't matter because they are getting dramatically killed off at the end). There will be a romance between Angelia's handmaiden, Jenny and a recluse young wizard, Mark, who hasn't gone outside since the death of his mother and grandfather. Jenny will persuade him to join the outside world. (Her association with him will cause her to suddenly develope abnormal powers.) Then there's the half humanoid, half lizard characters. The young Vasha will like the son of the Military sargent (of the troop that survived) but that will go over badly. Also, one of her kind "claims" her, so there we go... The military sargent has a wife that he misses but it is too dangerous to see his family. So on and so on. (this is frustrating, I had all thier names picked in my head a couple of years ago, but some I can't remember now or aren't sure of. I may have it written it down somewhere, but I'll have to search through boxes to get it. I also have a descriptive profile of the half human/half lizard female character, Vasha that I wrote in my Writer's Workshop class. And the teacher picked it to read in front of the class. I'll try to retrieve that one from the abyss of storage. It's late again...little by little I'll dispense more)

LOL, ok I'll file that under C for confidential and crossfiling it under B for black mail.

RPG 2000: RPG 2000

I have found a simpler RPG program but graphically it is crap

Scary admission

I'm DEFINETELY NOT PRINTING THIS anywhere else. It's kind of totally confidential.

OK, are you ready? Here comes:

In the MegaDrive Sonic games, I was scared to death of Sonic dying (with those freaking huge eyes). No s***!

Again, I request someone prints a link to RPG Maker 2000. Thankyouandgoodnight

RPG : Final Phantasy

Ive said it before and Ill say it again. Im no good with names
Anyhoo I was working on this quite a lot when I first got the program. Id be doing like 5-6 hours a day but recently I havent touched it
Ive been too busy playing Sonic Adventure 2 but Ill probably get back into it soon
I reckon im around 15% complete

VR

Yeah and that would send the media critics bonkers, its a nice idea but I doubt we will see much of it and personally I would prefer to "know" that the game is only a game and so not to interfere with my own life (I've had enough of pulling out my berreta after hearing a strange sound)

I think to be honest you should start small and build upto something like the ultimate game because some ideas might not work it's no good setting your sights so high that you might not be able to reach them. Once I have finished (Code Name: Lovely Angels, no its not a working title, this is what it will be called) I would like all of you to playtest it for me and see how long it takes to complete amongst other things.

I have ideas for games written down somewhere, these really took off in high school where most of my jotter was full of game designs and levels to go with em. I'm not joking I could probably make an entire Sonic game with these ideas. Speaking of Sonic I fell in love with the debug mode on Sonic 2, that was absolutly great.

Whilst the N64 was in its prime (the christmas it was released over here) my idea of the excellent game was: (now dont laugh)

An RPG basis for items and story and personalisation on the game (but not to the impersonal touch of PSO, more like Zelda)
It would contain an entire spherical world and maybe more
You could move in a first person or 3rd person
The vehicles could be used in a sort of Pilotwings 64 idea

But that was then and there would be many more ideas I would like to use but I'm not going to into them (yet anyway)

So all in all that was my ideas, but due to college and other things my own imagination died out and I just couldn't think of anything (damn TV) but this RPG 2000 thing has really set me off again.
Exactly how many people have a project ongoing?
Do you have RPG 2000?

Dark Syphid

VR again !

That sounds intresting but how would blind people see VR ? Would they be wearing those silly helmets :P

Or does this thing plug straight into the brain like in the Matrix ?

Back to the VR again!

My dream ultimate machine (let's just call my machine "UMachina") could be a godsend if finally developed! Think about it: normal people doing things they could have never imagined, because of real life restraints, e.g. disabled people walking, or blind people seeing!

In UMachina, maybe time could go faster (like in Digimon), where 1 minute real time equals 1 hour game time! Oh, the possibilities are limitless.

When I said the name it was meant as a working title like the Dolphin for the Game Cube it ould just be there until you think of something better.

The Name

No the name can't be Project: Angel. It really wouldn't suit it. ALthough one of my characters is named Angelia and she will do something important in the end, but it isn't a "project". My story has more of an ancient, "medieval" feel to it, even though there will be a race of "aliens" with advanced technology, but that's it. It could still have somewhat a futuristic look to it, though, as it is a fantasy that takes place on a world that is not Earth. I can't grasp the correct name at this time.

Twist's:

yes one of the characters in the story/game will have an important item all along, but was disallusioned by it and would not give it up. Some of the other characters spend all their time in the story to the very end trying to find the "item" when one of their group had it. Actually this could also be considered "a dark secret". I need more twists though. ANy suggestions and I'll let you know if it works.

An ultimate aim

The big mission is to find out the truth as to why the planet is "dying". They need to find a particular "item". It's like a crystal shard. It needs to be inserted into the machine in the core of the planet. There are two shards. A "good" one and a "bad" one. There can be two shards in the machine at the same time which produce a balancing in the planet. Or there can be just the good one, which allows for only for the good to prevail or just the evil one allowing only evil to prevail. Now, at first, the group of characters (when they find out about this and decide to half-believe it) will desire to retrieve both shards but put only the good one back in. As they get to the climax though, they'll be content just to put the "good" one in balance with the "bad". Obviously, the bad guy wants to have just the bad one in and have mastery over the planet.

Little side stories:

The (human) king of the present empire in the story has recently been betrayed and assissinated by his own people. However he really was a good and noble King. The troops who were loyal to this King were also betrayed and killed. However, due to miscommunication, good timing, one group survived the conspiracy. In the game/story the leader of this small troop has to not only avoid getting killed by the "ultimate" bad guys, but also have to avoid being seen by the rebellious troops. Towards the end, as the world deterioates, it won't matter anyway.

Well...it's like 2:15 am. I need to go to bed...I have to work at 9 am. I'll continue this tommorrow. Thanks everybody for your interest!

A name for the ultimate game something like Project: Angel

Mybe we should start thinking about generally what we want to see in P:A I mean its all great saying "would this" but we arn't really brainstorming.
Shall we start with the story?
I'll get the ball rolling:

I think out of all the stories I have ever read in my entire life I think you may need the following (to maybe feature in the game's story)

Twists (not too many we don't want the Ol "I am your father" appearing everywhere
An ultimate aim (sorta like the BIG mission)
Little side stories (these are great fillers, just look at SOA)
A romance (maybe it doesn't always appeal to all but most stories have em)
A no-way out situation (but dont make it so that they look like Supermen escaping from it)
A Dark secret (no not me, but something mysterious that no one really knows what is going on)
Comedy (so as to lighten things up)

And maybe stuff that when you play again you think "ahh now it makes sence" most RPG's have this

All of this is just quickly off the top of my head and I could probably spend all night constucting the basis for the story but I'll let some other people speak first.

More Ultimate Game Stuff

The most advanced game in the world, under years of research as to 'what 'it' is!

Today - should the Ultimate game be heavily time consuming and have huge missions/levels/whatever (e.g. MMORPGs like Ultima or Everquest) or short and sweet, where it can be enjoyed for small periods of time?

If we all made part of the "Ultimate Game", we could be onto a real winner! Mind you, we'd all have to learn complicated stuff like programming.

Hey Hey im back
I decided my reasons for leaving were pretty silly and I hope to continue these disccusions .

Yes...you're welcome here. A home away from home. And you can talk about other stuff too (not just games). Did you notice that PopDog left? I'm kind of sad but maybe something's wrong...who knows. As you know my work has been stressful, and for the past week I've been going to a lot of job interviews (though good is also stressful). So my creative mind is running on low energy right now. IT's not like I'm ready to post anything substantial yet. However, I managed to make my brain work to contribute to some suggestions on how to improve SWW in the Staff section. Oh well, see you later.
---ANGEL77