Dark's view on programming
Pre-School? Ok imagine that the red triangle.........no wait..........Mr Basic Code.........no that wont work either.
When I said "What would you like to see next" I meant stuff like graphics, lifespan, mastery etc. But after doing a little digging Ive found out some stuff for you.
Firstly programmers are considered the real 'geeks' of the gaming industry they sit around all day typing in a language than no bugger has a clue about, BUT lets face it Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Jon Carmack (Quake Series) are definetly having the last laugh (chi-ching).
The programmers make the actual engine that the game will use, they take the ideas from the artists and designers and make them work. Despite how difficult this is there are plenty of people having a go at becomming a programmer and fortunetly software companies are always on the lookout for good skilled programmers "If you have what it takes your skills are like virtual gold dust".
The more traditional way of showing your prowess is to make a short demo showing what you can do, if its good enough you may just get hired.
Since games have grown from a small team of ten or twenty to a full blown industry many companies like you to have a degree tucked away in your CV.
The prospects are good though the sky is the limit so to speak, get a reputation and you could end up with your own company (Syphid Games etc).
Salery? Trainees £12,000 a year while a top programmer could get £50,000 a year and royalties ontop of that.
Needed? Enthusiasm, dedication, and a good demo of your skills or a degree in computing or other math related subject.
Be Careful
Yeah when making the engine you have to make sure that it will run smoothly on the machine you are making it for, example Perfect Dark is a great game but the multiplayer is hindered by the fact that if you have too many bots and people it will slow down to a crawl. P.C's can always require better specs for the games but being conservative is also a consideration often overlooked.
So what do you want to see next? (Remember I'm not a book)
Sunday, August 19, 2001
Make my ears bleed
I tottaly agree with you there about the FF7 soundtrack. Superb stuff. I love the Costa Del Sol music.
Do Do Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do *drifts off into another world *
Lol Solid I didnt say that about NIN.
I cant remember who it was
Programming
Since I got started on RPG Maker and to a lesser extent Visual Basic Ive wanted to make a game. I dont wanna just put in basic events like RPG Maker. I wanna add the code. I used to make simple games on my Spectrum using Basic
I tried Dark Basic but couldnt get anywhere. It was just a blank screen. I didnt have a clue.
So I uninstalled it without even trying anything :)
Earthworm Jim
Sometimes comedy doesn't have to be in your face or completely obvious, the most effective brands in games are usually a parody of something well known or just a bizarre spin on reality. The Monkey Island series was and always will be funny, but so was Grim Fandango, Sam & Max and Day of the Tentacle, albeit in a less clear cut but just as effective way. For example, Bishi Bashi Special has most people in tears just because it's so unusually wacky.
Make my ears bleed
As for music, in my opinion Squaresoft are kings. Most people could easily name one of their RPGs as their favourite game music. Final Fantasy VII has just about the most valued soundtrack there is. Thing is, it's all simple orchestral pieces using the Playstation/PCs midi-capabilities but it still sounds amazing. If you break them all down it's all simple loops and sequences but turn the music off and the game feels empty. The best game music effects you in an emotional way, just as with the images you see on the screen. However, this may not be achievable with every type of game.
I agree with Popdog on NIN's soundtrack to the original Quake - it really did add to the atmosphere and feeling of suspense. I can remember myself jumping with fright as
The last 3 Fifa games have also had excellent fitting music, some by unknown artists. They may not have been directly football related but the game feels much better because of them. Ok, so it's not in-game music as such, but a good example of how real songs can be intergrated successfully.
Radiohead on a game soundtrack...that'd probably work better than you think...
Programming
The bit that turns all the great ideas into something substancial. My advice, start off small and work upwards. We have to be realistic, anything too ambitious would be like jumping into the deep end of a shark infested, lava-filled pool.
I've seen good games made on just about every programming language, although there's no telling how long it would take even for an experienced coder. As for the more well known professional gaming languages, the learning curve, especially for those who haven't learnt anything but high level languages, is almost Everest-like. From what I've seen of the infamous DarkBasic, people manage to make reasonably nice looking games with ease but seem to forget the very fundamentals that make a game playable. Besides, fancy graphics are irrelevant if the game itself is strong enough to survive.
Check out this site, they have games and help from DarkBasic users.
POint on Comedy is noted. The Monkey Island series were great!....for laughs anyway. Did anyone here ever play SPace Quest 4?
I still think some carefully selected popular tunes could make a game more enjoyable. But still I would want tons of original orchestrated music as well. I wouldn't want all popular tunes in it....maybe just a few...so that it's a treat.
Dark: Remember we can try to tackle programming next....
Can't type any more...must ....go...to...bed!
Friday, August 17, 2001
Comedy ha ha! No.
Comedy is a difficult target when making games, because so often has it failed miserably. Only few games have worked (Lucas Arts point n' clicks, Bangai-O), and if incorporated badly, it can be a real turn-off for the gamer.
If a band can do a good soundtrack, they usually have to pull out all the stops to create something phenomonal to fit in with the game (unless it's a mindless racer, like WipEout). NIN's soundtrack to Quake is a good example.
Comedy is a difficult target when making games, because so often has it failed miserably. Only few games have worked (Lucas Arts point n' clicks, Bangai-O), and if incorporated badly, it can be a real turn-off for the gamer.
If a band can do a good soundtrack, they usually have to pull out all the stops to create something phenomonal to fit in with the game (unless it's a mindless racer, like WipEout). NIN's soundtrack to Quake is a good example.
Sound
Yeah sound and music are important. Im not a big fan of rap or techno but these types of music work well in SA2 becuase of the characters and the levels that go with them.
I think one of the hardest areas is lyrics. Some games have great music but are spoiled by poor lyrics and vice versa. Sorry but I cant think of any examples but I know they are out there.
Comedy
Comedy is a difficult area to get right in a game as different people find different things amusing.
Lots of silly fart jokes might appel to immature kids but its not gonna appel to a more mature audience , espically females.
I think one of the best examples of Comedy done right is any of the Monkey Island series (except maybe the newest one , according to the reviews anyway ).
Wednesday, August 15, 2001
OK next on the list...
That's one thing my story (if i still choose to do it for a game) is lacking. There'll bit of Buddy"teasing" between and his two best friends...but I don't have any thing substancial. Yet another area I need big time help in.
Let's tackle...."programming". Remember...think of me as a pre-schooler.
Comedy
That's one thing my story (if i still choose to do it for a game) is lacking. There'll bit of Buddy"teasing" between and his two best friends...but I don't have any thing substancial. Yet another area I need big time help in.
Does Sound Make A Good Game?
No. But it can contribute to an astonishing degree. Music and sound effects can turn an otherwise average or uninspiring game into something special, if used properly. Of course, the opposite also applies. The importance of a strong backing score and suitable FX cannot be underestimated.
So What Can Sound Add To A Game?
Atmosphere. Pure and simple. Would a football game be the same without the crowd? or a FPS without the sound of guns?.
Some of the best music is context sensitive. This is music that has a basic soundtrack but changes as your location is changed.
A good example of this is Skies Of Arcadia's music that plays as you move the ship around the map, this sort of effect is very hard to achive and the first "good" context sensitive music I heard was Mario 64, since this was cartrige based it made it easier to produce (due to its CD quality sound chip) but the Dreamcast manages it just as well.
Isn't it better to have a Chemical Brothers/Radiohead Style Soundtrack For A Game?
Um, no. It isn't. Most games simply play a basic soundtrack in the background and, more often than not, it adds little to the gaming experience. But make the music alter to suit the game, or play certain tracks at set points to 'confirm' the mood of any one scene, and you're achieving something special. Movies do it, so why can't games? For an unsubtle but effective example, cast your mind back to Starsky and Hutch. When the camera switched to a couple of bad guys sitting in a car, or using a phone, there was a distinct 'somethings fishy!' tune. Later, in the all too inevitable car chase, a fast paced piece of guitar music would be used to accentuate the speed of the pursuit. Last, tramps or general losers always got the 'Waaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaa' noise.
Now, while the tunes lacked finesse, they served their purpose well. As soon as the relevent music began we, the viewers, were instantly aware of that scene's importance. You knew immediately that you were either staring at a bad guy, a car chase or a tramp so drunk he would happily drink his own believing it was Tizer. Such techniques can easily be included in videogames and to great effect.
What about Sound Effects?
Just think of Goldeneye. From the muffled report of a silenced Walther PPK, to the superb 'clink' of an ammo cartrige droppen by a guard.
Sound effects, on a basic level, act as a confirmation of on-screen action. You fire, and hear the appropriate noise.
A crap game that has odd sound effects that you don't expect makes the game feel weird.
The best games usually offer more than this, however, with incidental (and oh so atmospheric) spot FX that go a long way towards creating a believeable and engrossing game.
What Do You Want To Know Next?
Dark Syphid
No. But it can contribute to an astonishing degree. Music and sound effects can turn an otherwise average or uninspiring game into something special, if used properly. Of course, the opposite also applies. The importance of a strong backing score and suitable FX cannot be underestimated.
So What Can Sound Add To A Game?
Atmosphere. Pure and simple. Would a football game be the same without the crowd? or a FPS without the sound of guns?.
Some of the best music is context sensitive. This is music that has a basic soundtrack but changes as your location is changed.
A good example of this is Skies Of Arcadia's music that plays as you move the ship around the map, this sort of effect is very hard to achive and the first "good" context sensitive music I heard was Mario 64, since this was cartrige based it made it easier to produce (due to its CD quality sound chip) but the Dreamcast manages it just as well.
Isn't it better to have a Chemical Brothers/Radiohead Style Soundtrack For A Game?
Um, no. It isn't. Most games simply play a basic soundtrack in the background and, more often than not, it adds little to the gaming experience. But make the music alter to suit the game, or play certain tracks at set points to 'confirm' the mood of any one scene, and you're achieving something special. Movies do it, so why can't games? For an unsubtle but effective example, cast your mind back to Starsky and Hutch. When the camera switched to a couple of bad guys sitting in a car, or using a phone, there was a distinct 'somethings fishy!' tune. Later, in the all too inevitable car chase, a fast paced piece of guitar music would be used to accentuate the speed of the pursuit. Last, tramps or general losers always got the 'Waaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaa waaaaaa' noise.
Now, while the tunes lacked finesse, they served their purpose well. As soon as the relevent music began we, the viewers, were instantly aware of that scene's importance. You knew immediately that you were either staring at a bad guy, a car chase or a tramp so drunk he would happily drink his own believing it was Tizer. Such techniques can easily be included in videogames and to great effect.
What about Sound Effects?
Just think of Goldeneye. From the muffled report of a silenced Walther PPK, to the superb 'clink' of an ammo cartrige droppen by a guard.
Sound effects, on a basic level, act as a confirmation of on-screen action. You fire, and hear the appropriate noise.
A crap game that has odd sound effects that you don't expect makes the game feel weird.
The best games usually offer more than this, however, with incidental (and oh so atmospheric) spot FX that go a long way towards creating a believeable and engrossing game.
What Do You Want To Know Next?
Dark Syphid
Music
Yes....Music is very important! I think that a game with a serious story should have an original orchestrated musical score (perferably dark and dramatic, but some vocal could be ok).
When it comes to action stages themselves, the music has to be a bit more simplier and not too distracting. Definately I prefer moody and mysterious over other styles....although a funky techno tune could be appropriate for certain types of fighting scenes. But techno beats and other "fast" tunes (like Punk and Ska) aren't really appropriate for slower pace, adventure/problem-solving parts of the game. So music has to be carefully selected and fit the circumstances. Yet at the same time, there's has to be a bit of blending (from one to the next) so that the game moves smoothly, as opposed to coming off rigid or choppy.
Another thing that I think an ultimate game should have is "Guest Musical Artists". Feature popular music (but only if it relates to the "mood" of the game). Or the artist could make an original song up just for the game. It'll be exclusive to the game. This kind a thing, if properlly advertised, could help sell the game. ( I realise it cost a lot of money to sign on guest artists).
Tuesday, August 14, 2001
So what'cha what'cha what'cha want?
Music is very important to a game, which is why it needs careful consideration. If it is an RPG, the score should be something orchestral, with different moods for different events. Or what about something moody and mysterious? Like in Super Metroid.
A short post again, only because I haven't much time...
Music is very important to a game, which is why it needs careful consideration. If it is an RPG, the score should be something orchestral, with different moods for different events. Or what about something moody and mysterious? Like in Super Metroid.
A short post again, only because I haven't much time...
PopDog
After previous discussions with PopDog, all misunderstanding have been resolved. As a result, I have decided to re-invite PopDog to this group blog. Welcome back!
There must be a sacrifice....stuck between the rock and a hard place.
Yet, the more I post my ideas, the more I'm realizing that my "concept" is better off as a novel or a script. (Which is what I originally started it to be back in 1997.)
It's really important that Rian (the leader of the half lizard-half human people, and the most noble creature) in the story comes to a such an end. It is the finale touch of ultimate drama for Angelia to have to do something that will ultimately kill him. Yet, when I read your comments, they make me realize that it might be hard on a gamer to choose that character to play, play him for X-amount of hours, then come to the horrifying conclusion that one has to watch that character come to a finalizing death after all that hard work. Perhaps it isn't a good idea, but on the other end that is the ending I want. You see, my story concept relies heavily on character development and their interactions with each other. My story trifiles on the idea of "sacrifice" and coming face to face to circumstances where you have to kill loved ones for the greater good and the ethical issues of all that implies. The more I think about it, the more I think I should continue my idea as a novel or script, not a game.
I still would like to come up with a game though. Some of my ideas could be borrowed or "transferred". Or...my imagination is fairly active and maybe I could come up with new ideas to compliment some-one else's "ultimate game".
PopDog, did you read Cam's "Bullet Train" idea? If not, check the archives...it's worth it.
Instictive Gaming....yes...a fine idea, isn't it. It's nothing new...but I'd like to polish the concept and take it to a whole new level. I don't mean that an entire game should be made with instinctive gaming....but perhaps just the end. That allows for several, various endings. Instinctive gaming doesn't have to do with clues or putting two and two together, or solving a puzzle, or beating a "boss" systematically....rather...it means that the whole beginning and middle parts train you (the player) to become the character chosen. Then the end sequence is most successful when you are in most in tune with your character. Fulfiilling the character role in the story. "Instinctive gaming" works best in a situation where you have no idea what's going to happen next. I mean...no clues whatsoever....you have to be "sharp" to what's going on in your surroundings and respond accordingly, but quickly. The rest of the game you had played previously prepares you for "instinctive gaming" by letting you practice "fighting" or "problem-solving" while immersing you in an involved story that aids you in "becoming the character". But then when the day of reckoning comes...you are on your own to do your best to end the story as what is fit for your character. Does any of this explanation help or is it making it worse?
I guess that's enough for today....
Monday, August 13, 2001
I have returned
Ive been away for about a week and a bit but even after getting kicked out I still came here most days to try and keep on track with things.
I didnt think Id get back in. Angel was really pissed (and I think she is still cooling down so I better not annoy her again ) but I still wanted to see what ideas the rest of you would come up with.
Im really intrested by this Instinctive Gaming thing.
Although Im a bit confused as to who ends up killing who and why ?
I dont understand how the SUPER DOPPER ULTIMATE ending is achived by killing one of the good guys.
Is this your attempt to recreate the infamous Areis death in ff7 ?
Maybe not exactly but what I think your aiming for is for the player to kill one of the characters , feel bad about it but also realise it had to be done.
Sunday, August 12, 2001
A Dark Secret
Hmmm...probably similiar to the "Twists". I haven't thought about the dark secret yet. I can't think of any good ones....I'll need some ideas. I'm not feeling well today. I guess I'm just not able to think it through. The whole story itself is kind a 'dark' and none of the characters really know what's going on. And when they are given an explanation they don't whole heartedly accept it. There is going to be a this one thing with the wizard guy, Mark. Even though he'll "like" the heros, he won't be inclined to help them too much until the end. He thinks choosing between dark and light is unethical and that neither side is "right". He doesn't have a sense a truth. That's not much of a Dark Secret though.
Saturday, August 11, 2001
TIME
Yes. The idea of time has entered my mind for my ultimate game. I think it might be much on the player....BUT...perhaps that aspect of gaming could be limited only to 1 or 2 of the playable characters. I was thinking of having one character from the future be brought into the past due to the deteriation of the universe (as the machine is slowing down and stopping) while another character comes from another planet from another alternate reality and time. (please don't think me conceited but I was thinking of casting myself as that character.) And their actions can affect the ending of the others who can't alter time.
Still, putting in the "time" factor may make the ultimate game much too complex and could over-shadow the "real" story. So I don't know...we'll have to see....
A good name for a "time machine" is a watch...
How about the added obstacle of time travel in a new game? Only to be used sparingly though, where you could travel back in time and alter history some way or another, e.g. help a side in a past war win to effect control of the current world after travelling back to the future (she's gonna blow Marty!).
It could see entire maps changing or being built from who was in charge over the years, or what diseases are rampant (if any!) or whether communism/capitalism rule, whether "Big Brother" has become a reality (book by George Orwell), etc etc...
The possibilities are completely limitless! It'd be like Deus Ex, but on a whole new scale.
How about the added obstacle of time travel in a new game? Only to be used sparingly though, where you could travel back in time and alter history some way or another, e.g. help a side in a past war win to effect control of the current world after travelling back to the future (she's gonna blow Marty!).
It could see entire maps changing or being built from who was in charge over the years, or what diseases are rampant (if any!) or whether communism/capitalism rule, whether "Big Brother" has become a reality (book by George Orwell), etc etc...
The possibilities are completely limitless! It'd be like Deus Ex, but on a whole new scale.
Friday, August 10, 2001
No way out Situations
Yes...there will be lots of those. Again the Survival Horror aspect of escaping from the mutated tarantulas and what not. But I have this idea for a part involving the tarantula nest. The leader of the tarantulas is half human, have spider and is the younger brother of the "bad guy". At one point he'll capture Angelia and she'll be caught in the big spider webs. But it's not really a singular. The "web" is allover. Ever been in a real old wooden structure where the spider "webs" actually become part of the walls and is like 4 inches think, covering all the walls and ceiling? Well, I have seen this. Think in those terms.
The whole end sequence is a no way out situation in the sense that the characters' (gamer plays) friends will be die. The good guys will be quite out-numbered and trapped. In the same idea of Lord of the Rings, the majority have to war against the "bad guys" in order to allow the selected characters do the "real mission".
At the very, very end, in order to get the "ultimate" good ending requries the death of the most noblest character and it will be one of the one's you can play. He has to be killed by Angelia (whom the gamer could also choose to play) except as the gamer playing her, you will not know at the very end whether you can do it and if it really is the right thing to do until you've done it. I'll call this gaming aspect "instinctive gaming". There will be no clues as to how to play the very, very end. You must play instinctively. Actually, one could claim that the rest of the game itself is designed to teach you how to play and think out your character so as to choose your path at the very end. It'll be quite likely that the gamer will choose may other endings before trying the "ultimate" one.m So...anyway.... I'd call that a "no way out situation".
Thursday, August 09, 2001
Bullet Train
Hey! This sounds good. The background kind a remains me of I Spy: Industrial Espinage (DC) but it's unique enough. Definately a great recipe for an action game. Now will it be third person shooter or a first person? But sounds more of an action/adventure though, that's good. Allows for variety and movie sequences. Will there be some survival horror aspects to it? That's always exciting. The 48 hours in real time is an excellent idea. Of course, the temptation to play the game in the actual 48 hours will be there, but as Dark said, the "best" games are those that will keep the player glued to their seats to the point that the "rest of the world ceases to exist". IT's called "Immersion". Your story has the potential of creating a game that will be successful in this area.
Unfortunately, none of my ideas for the ultimate game are transferable to yours due to its setting. But I may have a character for you. He's flexible in that he can be hero, grey or evil. Grey is always effective, but you can't have to many "grey" characters as it makes the story way too complex. He could be a Russian, but his name is Jade, which isn't Russian name. But I think I'll think up a new name for him. Actually I wil do that. I want "Jade" for another story. When I'm fully recovered from the emotional outburst at the SWW forum, I'll try to give you a description of him and his personality.
Wednesday, August 08, 2001
I'm sorry for not posting too much in the last few days, but I am having problems on the SWW Forum.
And I am very p i s s e d off at some members and how moderators are treated in general.
I regret to announce that I have removed Graham McFayden a.k.a. PopDog from the team. I removed him due to how he treated me at the SWW Forum. If he does it there, what's going to stop him from doing it here on my own blog?
Yes Interaction is another excellent element for any ultimate game. The question is "how MUCH interaction is needed?"
Interaction is the key!
RPGs have never allowed much interaction, just the ability to examine objects. How about a level similar to the new breed of FPShooters, such as Operation Flashpoint, Duke Nukem 4Ever or Max Payne? Finding a vehicle, for example, and driving the thing to cover huge distances, when a dragon cannot be found for miles, or going one step furthur and finding a broken car and FIXING it to work again? Or, furthur still and MAKING a car (I'm just getting ahead of myself now).
OK, so the technical stuff may be removed (due to nobody actually having much of an idea how to make a car), but how about collecting the resources and building to the best of your skill level or whatever? If at a low level, a wooden cart, but at the highest level (with more resources) an MPV? Very crazy idea that could work one day...
RPGs have never allowed much interaction, just the ability to examine objects. How about a level similar to the new breed of FPShooters, such as Operation Flashpoint, Duke Nukem 4Ever or Max Payne? Finding a vehicle, for example, and driving the thing to cover huge distances, when a dragon cannot be found for miles, or going one step furthur and finding a broken car and FIXING it to work again? Or, furthur still and MAKING a car (I'm just getting ahead of myself now).
OK, so the technical stuff may be removed (due to nobody actually having much of an idea how to make a car), but how about collecting the resources and building to the best of your skill level or whatever? If at a low level, a wooden cart, but at the highest level (with more resources) an MPV? Very crazy idea that could work one day...
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